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[Colony Proposal] Zitgau
03-22-2018, 08:14 PM
Post: #11
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
Produced a map of how the Xian proposal could look....

Xian: Green
Her Sphere of Influence: Light Green
Kamura: Red
Zitgau: Blue
Lotus Island: Black

[Image: GYKr2BL.png]
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03-23-2018, 07:19 AM
Post: #12
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
Vittmark does use airships on a regular route to and from Fisks, but the capacity of these vessels is limited. There is cargo on board, like spices, gem stones, probaby some fresh exotic produce for the elite in Ă–stvallen, that kind of thing. I estimated that a colony of holding the size of Fisks, given its location, could easily be connected with a regular air service three times an orkanen week (that's twice a week in RL) and a passenger capacity of 20-24.

Shipping bulk would be Fisks main profession, haul goods from The Bind, probably Kamura and some own industrial output from the northern islands towards Vittmark. They might pick up some cocoa, tea and coffee on the way. It's not produced in large quantities at Fisks. But then again, there is not much demand for the stuff either. If you have a colonial empire producing a lot of sugar, coffee, cotton and cocoa, you would see to it that a market is created for it. In Vittmark those commodities are niche hobbies.

Then again, exporting ready made clothing from place like The Bind or Kamura would be an option, just like Vittmark is hauling a whole lot of consumer goods from The Bind selling it as "Made in Vittmark" after a minor alteration was done in a sweatshop on the northern Fisks islands.

VITTMARK:"This mess is a place." --- FISKS:"Fisk you!"
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03-25-2018, 02:56 PM (This post was last modified: 03-25-2018 04:22 PM by August Dux.)
Post: #13
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
TeamBattleaxe Wrote:I had originally thought that Anisora would set up an outpost within the straits and the ascendant Kamura would be applying pressure on it and other Anarian powers to start paying tolls and purchasing licences for access. You can still go along with Zitgau if you want to, though its main purpose would be accessing Xianic markets.

Just realised that I didn't reply to this beforehand. I think you're right. The narrative of increasing Kamuran pressure on Anisora and other Anarian powers is more interesting. Zitgau as it currently stands would mean Anisoran access to Xian, largely circumventing Kamuran influence (although there would be, as we've discussed, opportunities for piracy and sabotage).

I think the smaller concession on the Yan coast would prove a more interesting narrative. If Anisora acquired the small port to exploit oil in Yan, then this would be a really interesting flash point in Anisoro-Kamuran relations, and set a precedent for other Kamuran-Anarian relations.

I'm not sure what you, James, think about my suggestion that Kamura uses the signing of the Treaty of Aerliar and the implementation of the Common Tariff in Anaria as a justification for beginning to pressure the Anarian powers in the region by implementing a tariff of her own? After all, the Anarians who signed the Treaty would be in a sticky political spot if Kamura decided to do likewise and could hardly object too harshly - that decision, if Kamura does do that, of course, would make the need for Anisora to pull out of the Treaty even greater. Just a suggestion.

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03-25-2018, 09:56 PM (This post was last modified: 03-25-2018 10:04 PM by TeamBattleaxe.)
Post: #14
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
Quote:I'm not sure what you, James, think about my suggestion that Kamura uses the signing of the Treaty of Aerliar and the implementation of the Common Tariff in Anaria as a justification for beginning to pressure the Anarian powers in the region by implementing a tariff of her own? After all, the Anarians who signed the Treaty would be in a sticky political spot if Kamura decided to do likewise and could hardly object too harshly - that decision, if Kamura does do that, of course, would make the need for Anisora to pull out of the Treaty even greater. Just a suggestion.

Their would need to be some precedent for 'unequal treaties' to be passed between the Anarians and Kamurans very possibly, for Kamura to be willing to open up the straits in the first place. The Isles of Kamura are the heartlands of the Empire and the prospect of allowing Anarian shipping, including naval vessels, through these straits would have the double blow of putting the homeland at risk of further Anarian meddling as well as harming Kamuran mercantile interests. I would be open to something like this as it would provide yet another cause for the Kamuran Revolution.

In this context the Treaty of Aerliar could further galvanise sentiment in favour of tolls in Kamura though by 7580 they could already have been implemented following the modernisation of the Kamuran Navy and her recent victories. In that case a raising of the toll price might be being considered. In this situation, Kamura can effectively play Anisoran interests in Xian and Yan against one another. You build that railway and I bump up the tariffs! That way though banishing the Anarian presence altogether might be a pipe-dream it can be manipulated and contained with a balanced approach.
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03-26-2018, 08:52 AM
Post: #15
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
TeamBattleaxe Wrote:Their would need to be some precedent for 'unequal treaties' to be passed between the Anarians and Kamurans very possibly, for Kamura to be willing to open up the straits in the first place. The Isles of Kamura are the heartlands of the Empire and the prospect of allowing Anarian shipping, including naval vessels, through these straits would have the double blow of putting the homeland at risk of further Anarian meddling as well as harming Kamuran mercantile interests. I would be open to something like this as it would provide yet another cause for the Kamuran Revolution.

The Auresio-Kamuran War, amongst other conflicts and events, could have begun the process of weakening Kamura during the last century (thus opening up trade with Yan etc.), with her victory against the as yet unnamed Anarian power in the late 7560s as changing that previous unequal power balance with the Anarians. During the period of Anarian dominance in the region, Kamura's geography would not have been enough to keep the Anarians out, unfortunately.

Considering the population size and resources available in Yan, the Anarians would want to trade with her. Much like China in the RW, it would be viewed as one of the most important markets in the world (mostly due to its population and ample resources). Therefore, the wars of the 75th century with Kamura would probably have been motivated partly to open trade up with Yan, if Kamura had beforehand closed it off to Anarian interests (which makes sense prior to the period in question), using geography to her advantage.

TeamBattleaxe Wrote:In this context the Treaty of Aerliar could further galvanise sentiment in favour of tolls in Kamura though by 7580 they could already have been implemented following the modernisation of the Kamuran Navy and her recent victories. In that case a raising of the toll price might be being considered. In this situation, Kamura can effectively play Anisoran interests in Xian and Yan against one another. You build that railway and I bump up the tariffs! That way though banishing the Anarian presence altogether might be a pipe-dream it can be manipulated and contained with a balanced approach.

Fair enough - it was just an idea that would have fit nicely with the timeline already established, but I appreciate that the Treaty is a bit too late for your timeline. But I think the Treaty would definitely encourage the Kamurans to continue or expand their tolls etc.

There will indeed by lots of opportunities to unsettle Anisoran and Anarian interests in the region - I look forward to seeing what schemes the Kamurans employ! Smile

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03-26-2018, 06:47 PM
Post: #16
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
As for where this trading post on the Yan coast might be located, I've had a look at the map and thought a small section of territory 7141 might work. (I had considered the mouth of the Yinji Gulf, but I thought that might be a bit too restrictive for Yan). The territory is circled, with the Zitgau proposal for context.

[Image: 2qxx6iu.jpg]

The territories in this region are too large for the sort of set up Anisora would want/be allowed to have. The islands don't make sense as we're talking about setting up railways and extracting material resources. It makes more sense to have a trading post on the mainland, where ships can ferry goods from the railway much more easily.

I therefore propose we use the micro-state rules for this territory - meaning the port is allocated a small proportion of the stats for territory 7141. However, the difficulty comes with the fact that the territory is currently unoccupied - I'm not sure how set in stone the rules are on this.

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03-27-2018, 10:42 AM
Post: #17
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
It will be hell to maintain an outpost there. With all these islands and bays, there is so much room for ambushes, both from navies as well as more privateering forces. Supply lines are really long, even from a colonial system of stepping stones including Aspasia, Andrea and Zitgau.

My personal view on this: the outpost would be an episode, but probably not a lasting colonial presence like Gao or Hong Kong. It would be awesome to see this effort go pearshape from an RP POV, lots of stuff happening. So, Anisora WANTING to set up shop here will be an interesting storyline, but I have difficulties seeing this as a lasting presence.

But that's just me...

VITTMARK:"This mess is a place." --- FISKS:"Fisk you!"
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03-29-2018, 05:46 PM (This post was last modified: 03-29-2018 05:46 PM by August Dux.)
Post: #18
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
Pepijn Wrote:It will be hell to maintain an outpost there. With all these islands and bays, there is so much room for ambushes, both from navies as well as more privateering forces. Supply lines are really long, even from a colonial system of stepping stones including Aspasia, Andrea and Zitgau.

Oh yes! It will be a nightmare - but still worth it. The same way that the Germans managed to maintain the Tsingtao outpost in China, despite having to pass through waters and waterways controlled or heavily patrolled by both Great Britain and France. And of course, the islands and bays provide huge opportunities for ambushes, but let's be honest - if a major war broke out there, Anisora probably wouldn't be able to hold those territories on her own if Kamura decided to invade. Just like when Germany lost Tsingtao in the opening stages of the First World War. But that's all part of the fun!

It's an imperialistic project - i.e. with the aim of extracting as much wealth and resources as is humanly possible as quickly as possible. Anisora will be relying on her diplomatic nous and leverage to keep this particular project afloat. Should be fun!

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03-29-2018, 06:36 PM
Post: #19
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
Quote:It's an imperialistic project - i.e. with the aim of extracting as much wealth and resources as is humanly possible as quickly as possible.

Indeed, if there is money to be made and markets to access, it would be natural for a colonialist, capitalist minded nation to try and make the most of it while possible. I imagine your tycoons want some of those Davaian luxuries and maybe the Yannic and Xianic courts want to know more about Anarian technology.

Like I've said before, the Kamurans at first would likely be forced to let Anarian shipping in due to the tech gap early on and several Anarian powers could have holdings or ventures in West Davai by 7580. However, with the reasserting of Kamuran power and her technological advances, these holdings find themselves in a precarious position increasingly operating at Kamura's mercy.
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03-29-2018, 07:26 PM
Post: #20
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
Absolutely - the Anisorans will be wanting to get their hands on as many exotic Davai luxuries as they can, alongside the oil and more industrial resources.

TeamBattleaxe Wrote:Like I've said before, the Kamurans at first would likely be forced to let Anarian shipping in due to the tech gap early on and several Anarian powers could have holdings or ventures in West Davai by 7580. However, with the reasserting of Kamuran power and her technological advances, these holdings find themselves in a precarious position increasingly operating at Kamura's mercy.

Absolutely. If this outpost was set up before Kamura began reasserting herself, then the strategic and tactical considerations would have been very different when the Anisorans originally set it up - i.e. the risks would have been a lot lower. In more recent years, however, the Anisorans will have to think on their feet and deal with the fact that this arrangement is significantly less secure than a couple of decades ago, and attempt to react to these new risks. It will force the Anisorans to rethink their approach, and will provide for some interesting situations!

As Kamura steps up her pressure, and depending on how Anisoro-Kamuran relations actually manifest, this may become the single biggest strategic concern for Anisora. Ensuring she keeps hold of the increasingly delicate situation in West Davai and the seas of Kamura - the oil and other luxuries proving just too lucrative to give up entirely. Whether they actually manage to hold on to this in the long run remains to be seen.

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